vBulletin Nightmare

[hotwheels]

Not sure how come it is important to take pictures of my banning, but i will just so people can see it:

I will also add what i see when i log into vbulletin.org

[Abomination]

Originally Posted by hotwheels

Not sure how come it is important to take pictures of my banning, but i will just so people can see it:

I will also add what i see when i log into vbulletin.org

It is of no importance to me, but from a business perspective you can now show the world that you have been permanently banned, and harmed financially by a company, which is terrible public relations. If that screen shot said you were banned for 7 days that would imply you were misbehaving and for a week some privileges are lost, which would look quite different to the outside world.

I'm simply using the permanent ban vs temporary ban as an example of why I still worry about vb's future. One of many things I see as 'red flags'.

If the staff at vb.com are given a list of actions to take depending on the situation, and one of those is a permaban, then someone higher up should be able to figure out to change the policy based on the articles being written at the register (and I'm sure many more places in the future).

If the higher ups at vb were the ones telling the staff to do the permabans that would even be worse. If it was the upper management themselves were giving the perma bans, that tells me the future is even less bright.

[banger]

Originally Posted by Abomination

If the higher ups at vb were the ones telling the staff to do the permabans that would even be worse. If it was the upper management themselves not realizing the horrible mistake the perma bans are, that tells me the future is even less bright.

Did you read the latest press release? How much of it even resembles the truth? This is direct from the horse's mouth. Just like Caesar, they are ruling with an iron fist. You really think any of this is going to change? Every week it gets more sickening to watch and I can only wonder what happens if the expected December gold release date (in the minds of the support forum fans) slips into 2010 like the CTO seems to allude.

[LegolasTheElf]

Just for the record.. My ban screen.

I was trying to figure out how I would deal with a customer who misbehaves. I'm pretty sure it would go something like this:

PM a few times.

Give a 24 hour ban to allow for cool-off time

Still more? PM saying I'd ban for 30 days. There's no way they'll stay mad that long...

If they returned in 30 days and STILL caused issues, then, a perma ban is indicated.

If it was just a 'fun' site that was free, for friends, etc.. then, banning is a lot easier. But, these are paying customers we're talking about! You need to control things, but, immediately banning without warning? Kinda slimy IMHO.

BTW.. I have a great vB 3.8.3PL1 w/ BLOG that I'm selling. Make me a good offer and it's yours!

[Shelley]

Originally Posted by LegolasTheElf

Just for the record.. My ban screen.

I was trying to figure out how I would deal with a customer who misbehaves. I'm pretty sure it would go something like this:

PM a few times.

Give a 24 hour ban to allow for cool-off time

Still more? PM saying I'd ban for 30 days. There's no way they'll stay mad that long...

If they returned in 30 days and STILL caused issues, then, a perma ban is indicated.

If it was just a 'fun' site that was free, for friends, etc.. then, banning is a lot easier. But, these are paying customers we're talking about! You need to control things, but, immediately banning without warning? Kinda slimy IMHO.

BTW.. I have a great vB 3.8.3PL1 w/ BLOG that I'm selling. Make me a good offer and it's yours!

What about your vbulletin.org access. If your banned from there also you should post a screenshot.

[hotwheels]

Originally Posted by Abomination

It is of no importance to me, but from a business perspective you can now show the world that you have been permanently banned, and harmed financially by a company, which is terrible public relations. If that screen shot said you were banned for 7 days that would imply you were misbehaving and for a week some privileges are lost, which would look quite different to the outside world.

I'm simply using the permanent ban vs temporary ban as an example of why I still worry about vb's future. One of many things I see as 'red flags'.

If the staff at vb.com are given a list of actions to take depending on the situation, and one of those is a permaban, then someone higher up should be able to figure out to change the policy based on the articles being written at the register (and I'm sure many more places in the future).

If the higher ups at vb were the ones telling the staff to do the permabans that would even be worse. If it was the upper management themselves were giving the perma bans, that tells me the future is even less bright.

gotcha.......

[LegolasTheElf]

Originally Posted by Shelley

What about your vbulletin.org access. If your banned from there also you should post a screenshot.

I *was*, but, inexplicably, I can now access vb.org again. Not sure for how long, but.. Right now, I can.

[Abomination]

Originally Posted by banger

Did you read the latest press release? How much of it even resembles the truth? This is direct from the horse's mouth. Just like Caesar, they are ruling with an iron fist. You really think any of this is going to change? Every week it gets more sickening to watch and I can only wonder what happens if the expected December gold release date (in the minds of the support forum fans) slips into 2010 like the CTO seems to allude.

Yes I read the latest press release. That confirms the management is aware of the permanent bannings. Hence, if they are still doing those, that makes the future even less bright.

This is just one issue, there are many, as you indicate.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by banger

Just like Caesar, they are ruling with an iron fist.

I am going to guess that you mean Julius Caesar? He was very kind to his friends and ruthless to his enemies.

Even though Markus Brutus joined Pompey Magnus in the civil war, Julius Caesar offered Markus a seat at his table and restored Markuses senate seat after the war was over.

During the Gallic wars, Julius Caesar would give the villages and opposing armies a chance to surrender. If they did not, then he had everyone slaughtered.

Julius Caesar was not declared dictator or emperor until after the civil war started. When you have enemies in the senate trying to declare you an enemy of the state, you have to do something. Julius Caesar did not march across the Rubicon by his own free will; his hand and the hand of Pompey Magnus were forced by people who wanted Julius Caesar out of office and out of the way.

When you have people like Marcus Tullius Cicero and Scipio that were always at you,,,, well, you have to do something about them sooner or later.

What can you really say about Scipio? A man that would rather tear out his own guts and die by his own hand then to be forgiven by Julius Caesar. That is a heck of a choice Scipio made. He cut his own belly open, was tearing out his guts, was caught, doctor was called, he was patched up. And as soon as everyone left his tent he tore open his bandages, finished pulling his own guts out and killed himself. He said he would rather do that then accept forgiveness from Julius Caesar.

[Been Told]

Uummm

[ruiner]

I inquired on the vb forum about my right of renewing 3.x maintenance until 3.x was EOL'd and being forced into purchasing 4.x without prior warning. I was just quoted the license agreement by the vBulletin staff as an answer:

Originally Posted by Zachery

Read your license agreement carefully. Nowhere in the license agreement does it say you can renew your license.

I then thought, well.. Does it say my license expires then? I carefully read the license agreement again, and nowhere does it says anything about needing to renew my license or it expiring at any moment. It also doesn't say anything about upgrades/updates being provided to me. (That is for owned licenses of course)

Originally Posted by License Agreement

The license is effective until terminated (Owned License)

So, according to this little line my license is "effective" and has no expiry date. Nowhere does it mention any form of "support" or "maintenance".

How can this IB employee quote the license agreement like this when none of it is covered into the agreement? Have we paid yearly subscription fees for updates for no reason? It would seem so, since according to this agreement the license never expires or needs renewals..

[Mark.B]

Originally Posted by ruiner

I inquired on the vb forum about my right of renewing 3.x maintenance until 3.x was EOL'd and being forced into purchasing 4.x without prior warning. I was just quoted the license agreement by the vBulletin staff as an answer:


I then thought, well.. Does it say my license expires then? I carefully read the license agreement again, and nowhere does it says anything about needing to renew my license or it expiring at any moment. It also doesn't say anything about upgrades/updates being provided to me. (That is for owned licenses of course)

So, according to this little line my license is "effective" and has no expiry date. Nowhere does it mention any form of "support" or "maintenance".

How can this IB employee quote the license agreement like this when none of it is covered into the agreement? Have we paid yearly subscription fees for updates for no reason? It would seem so, since according to this agreement the license never expires or needs renewals..

There is the license and there is the contract of sale....the renewals are mentioned in what forms the contract of sale. The license itself only governs your USE of the software.

Some people are now arguing that said contract of sale included a right to renew - the counter argument to that is that it didn't, it merely said that you would NEED TO RENEW to continue getting updates.

Ultimately contracts are open to interpretation and the only sure way to know would be for someone to test it in court. Somehow I doubt anyone will.

[Abomination]

If they simply rename it to 'maintenance contract' (or similar) 6 months ago things would be much clearer.

Did you buy a license? Yes, then you can use that particular version forever.
Do you have a maintenance contract? Yes, then you can download all updates while that is active.

[Dalraida]

Seems bbrisco (won't elaborate what the "B" stands for), has posted a blog entitled " Our Vision for vBulletin " Most of the comments are sickening, I posted a comment but it seems Mr. Brisco is a tad nervous about what some members may say as they are moderated.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Dalraida

Seems bbrisco (won't elaborate what the "B" stands for), has posted a blog entitled " Our Vision for vBulletin " Most of the comments are sickening, I posted a comment but it seems Mr. Brisco is a tad nervous about what some members may say as they are moderated.

http://www.adminaddict.net/forum/vbu...bulletin-4560/

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In general, this thread has split into a multitude of discussions and complaints, so it serves no real productive purpose any more. As such, I'm going to close it; feel free to create individual threads for other concerns.