vBulletin Nightmare

[twhiting9275]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

We don't like banning people and we would rather not do it. We have posted numerous warnings, contacted people (I don't know if this includes you specifically) and so forth. Banning is always see as the last futile step in any situation.

I'm afraid that's not always the case here. You (as a person) may not like banning people, and use it as a last resort, but Ray does not feel the same. All it takes is him to get an 'opinion' of you that is bad and you're toast across any and all sites owned by vBulletin

[ptwiggens]

Originally Posted by twhiting9275

I'm afraid that's not always the case here. You (as a person) may not like banning people, and use it as a last resort, but Ray does not feel the same. All it takes is him to get an 'opinion' of you that is bad and you're toast across any and all sites owned by vBulletin

It's my understanding that vBulletin doesn't own or maintain vb.org. Because they can't ban people over there the regular way, vBulletin wrote into the system that links the license to vb.org a way for them to effectively ban people without vb.org having any knowledge of it by blocking the license.

[twhiting9275]

Originally Posted by ptwiggens

It's my understanding that vBulletin doesn't own or maintain vb.org.

Your understanding is 100% incorrect. vB and IB definitely own and administrate vb.org and can (and will) ban accounts from there.

[Mark.B]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

To tell you the truth, it wasn't what you posted that got you banned. It was how you posted it and repeated things over and over across the site in general. Your banning may be attributed to one single post because that is how the infraction system works. However that post would have been the proverbial straw.

We don't like banning people and we would rather not do it. We have posted numerous warnings, contacted people (I don't know if this includes you specifically) and so forth. Banning is always see as the last futile step in any situation.

I would say in my defence that I wasn't contacted by anyone at any point, either publicly or privately. I had no infractions or formal warnings or anything. Just nothing one minute - banned the next.

It wasn't even a post I'd made that day.

Had I been asked to back off - then of course I would have.

[Mark.B]

Originally Posted by kevin

As for getting banned from vbulltin.com/.org - when your in someone elses house, mind your manners. If you do not have any manners, learn some.

Fine, but leave me with the contractual rights I've just paid a lot of money for.

vBulletin is a business, in the game to make money. it's not like a private forum. It shouldn't actually matter if customers are pleasant or not, the purpose of the whole thing is to make money, not friends.

vBulletin's *only* interest should be, ultimately, making money out of me.

[kevin]

One thing about a free enterprise system, if you do not like the product, go buy something else.

I got tired of my chevrolet truck breaking down, so I bought a Toyota.

When your vbulletin license expires, go buy invision power board.

[Shelley]

I heard if you purchase IPB between now and halloween customers have a 67% chance of imploding. Whether this is down to the software is open to conjecture and debate.

Always ensure that forum software requirements are not going to conflict against/with your medical conditions. You have been warned.

[KearaO]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

* * *

We don't like banning people and we would rather not do it. We have posted numerous warnings, contacted people (I don't know if this includes you specifically) and so forth. Banning is always see as the last futile step in any situation.

Wayne, I'm not sure that everyone at vB is following this protocol. I believe that people have been banned with no, or very little, personal warning. That seems to me very wrong.

This comment is in no way aimed at you personally. And I'm sure that bans are usually regarded as a last resort. In the last week, however, I think that one or more of your colleagues has acted outside the usual guideliness for banning.

[Shelley]

It's what you call gravitational collapse.

[Nick]

The posts that reference the historical tragic event (and compare it to how vBulletin.com is run) have been removed. Several members have expressed their displeasure with the postings, and I personally think it's a bit too far, regardless of the humorous intentions.

Thanks for your understanding.

[KearaO]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

. . . Policies can and do get rewritten because of feedback from the support staff. Discounts on expired licenses, extended support of vBulletin 3.8.X Owned Licenses through next year (even if already expired), the ability of leased licenses to upgrade to 4.0, and more are all because of the support staff looking out of the customer.

Wayne, I accept everything you have said here, and I very much appreciate all that you and your colleagues have done.

My point for the moment is addressed to my own colleagues, i.e., admins of other vB boards.

And that point is: not a single one of the many things mentioned should have been necessary. I mean, what is wrong with a company that spends months coming up with a plan that needs such massive overhauling (and that still suffers from some horrible inequities)????

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

We do a lot more than simple support. We are your one and only line of defense. We are the ones that forward your feedback on. We are the ones that accept your abuse and still fight for you. . . .

Yes, I'm sure that's true. And that's really quite alarming. First, all the changes you fought for should have been made in the general office, or in public relations, such that you would never even have heard of them.

Second, what will happen to your customers if a day comes when you and Steve are not there? At some point, all the support staff will belong to the post-Jelsoft era. They will not have the depth of experience and concern that you and Steve have. They will be IB people, pure and simple. There will be no one to fight for us as you and he have. And what a mess that will be.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally Posted by KearaO

And that point is: not a single one of the many things mentioned should have been necessary. I mean, what is wrong with a company that spends months coming up with a plan that needs such massive overhauling (and that still suffers from some horrible inequities)????

Business realities and customers needs don't often mix well. Most of the time they are like oil and water. I won't say this couldn't have been handled better but all we can do is learn and move forward. If you don't trust us, then we need to work harder to regain that. We realize that.

Yes, I'm sure that's true. And that's really quite alarming. First, all the changes you fought for should have been made in the general office, or in public relations, such that you would never even have heard of them.

We're a very small company. What stood for the "General Office" under Jelsoft doesn't exist anymore and they never really interacted on a daily basis with the customers to the extent that we do. As such, the people at IB actually come to us for our experience in dealing with the customers we have and we have to work to make sure you're represented.

Second, what will happen to your customers if a day comes when you and Steve are not there? At some point, all the support staff will belong to the post-Jelsoft era. They will not have the depth of experience and concern that you and Steve have. They will be IB people, pure and simple. There will be no one to fight for us as you and he have. And what a mess that will be.

We can play what if games all day but it doesn't accomplish anything in the here and now. All we can do is to work and create policies for new employees to follow as they are brought into the fold. After that, we cannot make any guarantees. Then you don't have any real guarantees from any business.

[KearaO]

Wayne, I appreciate your responding to what I wrote. But . . .

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

Business realities and customers needs don't often mix well. Most of the time they are like oil and water. I won't say this couldn't have been handled better but all we can do is learn and move forward. If you don't trust us, then we need to work harder to regain that. We realize that.

Much was lost, and needlessly so. Ray Morgan swore up and down months ago that vB couldn't make any announcements because he and others were working so hard to come up with a plan that would be fair to everyone. It would have taken a very great, deliberate effort to do worse than they did.

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

We're a very small company. What stood for the "General Office" under Jelsoft doesn't exist anymore and they never really interacted on a daily basis with the customers to the extent that we do. As such, the people at IB actually come to us for our experience in dealing with the customers we have and we have to work to make sure you're represented.

Apparently they did not do so early enough, or often enough. And they have still failed to do so in extremely important respects. When I read of people who paid real money just weeks ago, and who are now in a worse position than a brand new customer, it makes me sick. (Sorry, but it does.)

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

We can play what if games all day but it doesn't accomplish anything in the here and now. All we can do is to work and create policies for new employees to follow as they are brought into the fold. After that, we cannot make any guarantees. Then you don't have any real guarantees from any business.

With all due respect, it is not a game. It is a very real concern. The line between us and being bullied to death by Ray et al. seems all too human and really quite thin.

[kneel]

im already sick of vb4 and ive only used it twice. :-(

and its NOT cuz its a bad product..lol..

[Shelley]

Vbulletin Nightmare - It's almost upon us and it starts this halloween the end of the pre-sales (purchase now while stocks last). LOL

edit: Based on a true story.