vBulletin Nightmare

[3Phase]

Wayne you deserve great credit for all you have done for both vb and the customers. As do Steve and others who are keeping vb custmers going. My hat is off to all of you.




I do hope the senior execs at vb - however that is structured, however it works - help out you, Steve and other customer advocates by getting smarter themselves, very fast. They have a very good product rolling out, and overall I believe at a fair price. It was how it was offered to existing customers ... but that's been beaten into the ground, of course.

Literally textbooks and business books by Harvard grads and other communications specialists could still help immensely if they were open on the desks of the right people. The past can't be done over. But much could be done starting now to make the customer base happier, from an executive level. Not just the one-offs with individual customers. Many future customer attitude problems could still be remedied now. As of today it's still early in the game, but it is getting later fast.

On the vb forum the "banned" notations and locked threads are most definitely being noticed to the shock of people who don't normally get into the complaining , and pounding more nails. The customer shock factor, one after another, is making it tougher on y'all. I do feel for you, you and Steve don't deserve this.

Oh well ... all the best to you, I know y'all know you do have the satisfaction of representing a good product.

[KearaO]

Originally Posted by 3Phase

* * *
I do hope the senior execs at vb - however that is structured, however it works - help out you, Steve and other customer advocates by getting smarter themselves, very fast.

* * *

I really think that this cannot be stressed enough.

[ruiner]

File a complaint through BBB

Anyone with licensing issues or feels they aren't being listened to should file a complaint through the BBB. Internet Brands is an accredited BBB company, so your complaint through the BBB probably has more weight that complaining on forums.

Hope this helps someone. I filed mine and it's been forwarded to IB already, waiting for a response from them.

Looking at their full report is interesting, also.

[Dalraida]

complaint through the BBB

That only works if you are in the US or Canada. Also the current licence of vb is within the UK jurisdiction. A better route is via consumer and Trading Standards if you are in the UK.

I also note that theregister has picked up on the fiasco.

Question for Wayne; what do you mean by this statement;

Extended support of vBulletin 3.8.X Owned Licenses through next year (even if already expired)

I run vb3.8.2, with no option to update to 3.8.4, there is no extended support even for owned expired licencences. If we cannot update our forum software up until its EOL then IB have in a effect killed of our owned licence today, not next year, I find your statement misleading.

[ptwiggens]

Originally Posted by Dalraida

I also note that theregister has picked up on the fiasco.

Hopefully Ray Morgan and the rest of those who made the ban decisions can find a lesson or two in this. Should be an interesting day.

I wish I had included a portion I deleted out of the email I wrote to Ray today. It was very prescient. vBulletin officially has a PR disaster on their hands.

And Ruiner, I too filed a BBB complaint yesterday. I also got the notice that it was forwarded to them.

[Dalraida]

vBulletin officially has a PR disaster on their hands

That is what I was thinking this morning. The Register is viewed by many on the net, the company is now getting bad PR, this WILL effect sales.

I am also intrigued by the comments that vb4 sales have met with an overwhelming response. Given that they have just shut down everyone’s owned licence (where access to updates have expired), and gave them a few weeks to take the option of buying a licence for a product that is not available, I wonder if they have relied on the scare factor to force the new licence or is there a bit of psychology at work here and sales have been poor?? My view is that we will hear nothing for a few weeks, certainly not until after the pre-sales offer has ended and they see just how many customers they have lost.

[Mark.B]

Nice that AdminAddict gets a mention in that report. Can't do this site any harm!

[KW802]

Originally Posted by Dalraida

... I also note that theregister has picked up on the fiasco. ...

I can't believe I'm saying this but... that article seems to be a bit one sided. True, Ray supposedly never got back to them but just like they presented pricing information for upgrading from prior licenses they neglected to mention that people with current active licenses will be able to download vB4 until their current license runs out (which means really that their current license is being honored but is not renewable anymore) nor does it take into account that if vB4 has an expected life span greater than two years before it is put into sunset mode, then the lack of yearly renewals might save some people money.

It really would have made for a better article if the pricing was laid out for current active license owners, expired license owners, leased license owners, and new customers. That way any disparages could have been seen clearly.

[Dalraida]

Interesting take on the licence issue but that is the hub of the problem, existing licences are not being honoured if they were, I would have the ability to update and would get all updates (providing I had paid my yearly subscription) for the vb3 series until its end of life.

For example, my licence IS ACTIVE, if it were not then I would need to take my site offline. It is only my ability to update that is inactive. This is the moot point, that ability has been taken away (GONE) Vb state that your licence is inactive on their website if your subscription is not current, however an owned licence cannot be inactive. You either have a licence or you DO NOT!

If we take this a step further, those with a current subscription will be able to run vb3 until its EOL, including bug fixes, security updates etc. We on the other hand are being denied the ability to renew our subscription. In other words inactive subscription customers are having their products EOL date prematurely brought forward.

Questions:
1. When will vb end support to vb3
2. Will customers have 100% support until that time
3. Will those with an inactive subscription have access to all security updates until the date stipulated at 1 above?

I think the register article was pretty well balanced given it was addressing the issues customers raised.

[MjrNuT]

^you'll find the answers to your questions here and in the vB FAQ.

[KW802]

Originally Posted by Dalraida

...

If you have access to the Licensed feedback forum over at vB.com, here's a thread you'll want to check out:

vBulletin Community Forum

Taking his matrix into account, it would seem to be that support for the vB 3.8.x series will reach EOL/sunset when vB 4.2.x is released.

[banger]

Originally Posted by KW802

It really would have made for a better article if the pricing was laid out for current active license owners, expired license owners, leased license owners, and new customers. That way any disparages could have been seen clearly.

All Ray and vBulletin had to do was tell customers in advance about the proposed new licensing scheme and the presale period for purchase. What was the problem with full and adequate disclosure? Instead this was a blind side hit to the customer with a two week panic sale and heavily marketed "savings" message to rationalize what smells something putrid.

[MjrNuT]

Originally Posted by KW802

It really would have made for a better article if the pricing was laid out for current active license owners, expired license owners, leased license owners, and new customers. That way any disparages could have been seen clearly.

Originally Posted by banger

All Ray and vBulletin had to do was tell customers in advance about the proposed new licensing scheme and the presale period for purchase. What was the problem with full and adequate disclosure? Instead this was a blind side hit to the customer with a two week panic sale and heavily marketed "savings" message to rationalize what smells something putrid.

Exacta mundo

(feel free to delete if considered a spam post)

[Abomination]

Originally Posted by banger

All Ray and vBulletin had to do was tell customers in advance about the proposed new licensing scheme and the presale period for purchase. What was the problem with full and adequate disclosure? Instead this was a blind side hit to the customer with a two week panic sale and heavily marketed "savings" message to rationalize what smells something putrid.

What would happen if he did announce the changes in advance?

• Sales would drop significantly for the blogs/PT/v3
• People would still scream about the changes
• People would still not all be notified (people are still just now finding out about this)

The only possible graceful solution that I can think of would be to continue v3 under the old licensing structure, and implement the new licensing structure for v4 and beyond. EOL would still happen at some point for v3. But that too would have a huge loss of sales for vb, certainly there would be fewer people taking advantage of the pre-sale if v3 support would be continued under the old way.

There is no method that I can think of that would be good for customers and the company, and still switch to the new licensing scheme.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally Posted by Dalraida

I run vb3.8.2, with no option to update to 3.8.4, there is no extended support even for owned expired licencences. If we cannot update our forum software up until its EOL then IB have in a effect killed of our owned licence today, not next year, I find your statement misleading.

You should contact support if you need support. My statement is only misleading if you don't contact the people at vBulletin.com who are able to help you in your situation.

Though, with your expired license, you wouldn't have gotten access to new versions even under the old licensing. You would have had to pay money to do so. However you can still receive support for it from existing channels.