Is incompatibility with IE6 going to be fixed?

[Ryan Ashbrook]

Originally Posted by Paul M

You only have to read the replies in this thread and .com to see how true that is. The idiots that just say "tell your users to upgrade" or even better "tell your company to upgrade" are just so far off reality its quite sad (one in particular springs to mind ....).

Not once did I say "tell your users to upgrade."

I recommend it, yes, but I also stated that I understand why some can't. (See my first post)

I do not advocate the use of IE6, and I haven't since IE7 came out.

I hate IE6, but I'm still putting forward the work required to make it at least work on my projects. I'm just not bending over backwards for it.

But, if a user can upgrade, but doesn't choose too, then they are getting something less than optimal. I have too much to do, to spend weeks coding up IE6 workarounds.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Ryan Ashbrook

But, if a user can upgrade, but doesn't choose too, then they are getting something less than optimal.

Considering the average computer user who isn't keen on using the latest-and-greatest, it doesn't really matter to them if they upgrade or not. If the sites they visit work fine in their browser of choice (in this case, IE 6) and they happen along one website that isn't compatible, they aren't going to make it a point to upgrade just to use that site. They will simply move along and forget about the incompatible site.

[Ryan Ashbrook]

Originally Posted by Nick

Considering the average computer user who isn't keen on using the latest-and-greatest, it doesn't really matter to them if they upgrade or not. If the sites they visit work fine in their browser of choice (in this case, IE 6) and they happen along one website that isn't compatible, they aren't going to make it a point to upgrade just to use that site. They will simply move along and forget about the incompatible site.

... isn't that what I said?

Essentially, it won't be perfect, but it will be usable. (less than optimal)

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Ryan Ashbrook

Not once did I say "tell your users to upgrade."

Nor did I say you did.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by Ryan Ashbrook

What really baffles me is that you're advocating a browser that is outdated not once, but twice. Soon to be three times (Internet Explorer 9 is due this year, if I recall).

By whos definition is ie 6 outdated? There comes a point in time when it "just works". When something works, there is no need in fixing it.

As for transparency - I really dont care about that. I just want to look at the website.

I dont care if internet explorer 9,000 comes out - I'am going to use the version that I like.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by kevin

There comes a point in time when it "just works". When something works, there is no need in fixing it.

I agree with that, 100%.

But why have you upgraded your sites to run vB 3.8.4? You know, vB 2.x 'just works'. As does vB 3.0.x.

I don't have a problem with people not wanting to embrace new technology. There are times when I am one of them. Sometimes the expense outweighs the benefits. But when the latest and greatest browser downloads are all there, free for the taking, I struggle to understand why people are so resistant to upgrading. If you were to upgrade your truck, it would require a serious exchange of cash. IE8 costs nothing.

[Shelley]

That fact remains that issues with ie6 in vb4 need to be fixed so that customers traffic (members) are not lost. Doesn't matter about the fact it's an outdated browser (which I won't argue with). the fact is not correcting the issues is resulting in lost traffic or at least potential lost traffic to people running forums.

And there are people over at .com (same old people that wish to alienate peoples concerns) saying "upgrade", use another browser blah de blah basically, the same old bullying crap. What we try to see here by some members who persist in proceeding with the same tactical play.

Personally, I wish ie6 would just die, I don't support the browser but I think as a seller to customers you have to support the browser due to lost traffic for customers who where basically forced to purchase the package.

Anyway, Anyone for a slice of Yule log cabin chocolate cake? It's free.

[Mark.B]

These sort of threads make me chuckle, they really do. Like anyone - individual or company - is going to listen to anyone spouting off about how they "need to upgrade their browser". No, they "need to visit a different site" if yours doesn't support the browser they are using.

My company uses IE6 because it has a vast array of bespoke software that doesn't work on IE7 or above, nor any other browser. At a time when businesses are focusing on return on investment (ROI), what would be the ROI on paying to have this software updated so they can use IE8? Answer: fat zero. Will it get done? Answer: Not a chance! And any website owner or developer can complain all they like.

The likes of that isiot schwab2clarkson on vb.com who keeps wittering on about "petitioning" your employers - she clearly doesn't actually have a job or she'd know how fruitless this would be.

Sites still need to work as well as possible in IE6, and that's a fact.

[kevin]

VB 4 not working with ie 6, is like Exxon making a new gas that will not work in 11.44% of the trucks and cars on the road today.

Guess what, that 11.44% of the market share is going to go elsewhere.

W3Counter - Global Web Stats

Windows 98 and windows 2000 are still showing up. Windows xp, an operating system that was released in 2001 still makes up 56.61% of the market.

[Rocket 442]

Originally Posted by kevin

No, I'am not kidding.

Internet explorer 6 was released in 2001 - and has worked well for how many years? 7, 8, 9 years? But all of a sudden, its a junk, outdated browser?

That is comical at the best. At the worst, its really sad.

Its sad that developers "think" they can tell people what browser they should use.

Internet Explorer 6 was at its time (9 years ago) the best browser available. Now that other browsers have come out that meet standards-based expectations and don't have misused and horrible CSS & Javascript support, IE6 should be faded out. It is hurting everyone involved.

These companies that still run it in their systems are only hurting themselves. IE6 doesn't support a ton of new features with HTML5, CSS3, and all other new scripting languages and markup.

Saying that staying with IE6 forever should happen is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. Just because some people are stubborn and don't want to update doesn't mean everyone else who does needs to suffer at the hands of the few who don't like newer versions of the software.

You're right about the Tacoma and T100. It isn't out of date, but you can't walk into as many places and get new parts as you used to. It'll eventually be faded out other than some people who like them for crawling, customizing, or collecting.

The web needs to move forward into a more standards based reality. Holding that back only hurts everyone in the end. If you're going to use IE6 for the rest of your life, expect sites not to work and don't complain about it.

That is like using an old version of an anti-virus and saying "I don't like the new one, I'm not upgrading"; then complaining when you get a new virus that the old program had no idea about.

[Mark.B]

If you want to be successful on the internet you support what your customers/members/users are using, not what you want them to use.

It's a basic principle and I'll be amused to watch the "tell them to upgrade" brigade fail miserably.

[Mark.B]

Originally Posted by Rocket 442

Internet Explorer 6 was at its time (9 years ago) the best browser available. Now that other browsers have come out that meet standards-based expectations and don't have misused and horrible CSS & Javascript support, IE6 should be faded out. It is hurting everyone involved.

These companies that still run it in their systems are only hurting themselves. IE6 doesn't support a ton of new features with HTML5, CSS3, and all other new scripting languages and markup.

My employers do not need or want any of these features. What they do want is for their bespoke software to run.

They quite rightly will not spend many tens of thousands of pounds having that software rewritten JUST so they can use a more up to date browser which will provide absolutely NO return on investment whatsoever.

Taking the simplistic "but you need these features!" approach in business does NOT work. It's all about return on investment. Unless someone can provide a genuine return on investment (rather than the usual vague "but you might get viruses" nonsense) then everyone who can't understand why employers won't spend thousands of pounds on a whim, are going to be disappointed.

[BamaStangGuy]

Originally Posted by Mark.B

If you want to be successful on the internet you support what your customers/members/users are using, not what you want them to use.

It's a basic principle and I'll be amused to watch the "tell them to upgrade" brigade fail miserably.

I don't support IE6 when designing and won't. The only people it should possibly affect are people at work. Even those should be on at least IE7.

If you are using IE6 on your personal computer I don't want you on my site anyways.

[Mark.B]

Originally Posted by BamaStangGuy

I don't support IE6 when designing and won't. The only people it should possibly affect are people at work. Even those should be on at least IE7.

If you are using IE6 on your personal computer I don't want you on my site anyways.

I don't personally use IE6 but I do keep a machine running with it on.

If you don't want people on your site on IE6 then that's fine for you - that's your business decision and you can always block them by useragent anyhow.

For the vast majority though, I suspect that's not the case. I don't fully support IE6 however I do ensure my site is accessible and fully usable in IE6.

[Rocket 442]

Originally Posted by Mark.B

If you want to be successful on the internet you support what your customers/members/users are using, not what you want them to use.

It's a basic principle and I'll be amused to watch the "tell them to upgrade" brigade fail miserably.

Yeah, Facebook has failed miserably right?
Youtube has failed miserably right?
37signals has failed miserably right?
reddit has failed miserably right?
i think you get my point...

I don't agree that completely shutting down the site to IE6 users is the way to go. HOwever, nudging them in the right direction to upgrade is not a horrible thing to do.

Also, depending on the size of the company, updating to a faster browser over time could save the company WAY MORE than what the cost of updating their system would. Some food for thought for you guys.